Election Denial: The Result

Mutt has now accepted my settlement proposal. Why can't all election disputes be settled this easily?

Election Denial

Two guys I know are having a friendly — and I hope it stays that way — argument over a bet they made. We'll call them Mutt and Jeff. Mutt bet Jeff an expensive dinner that Kevin McCarthy would become Speaker of the House. Jeff bet against him but they both agree Jeff's phrasing was "I'll bet that he never gets 218 votes."

So now Mutt is claiming victory because McCarthy got elected and Jeff is claiming victory because McCarthy never got to 218 votes. McCarthy won on the fifteenth (!) ballot with 216 because six G.O.P. holdouts voted "Present." You see the problem.

Last night, they exchanged a series of e-mails with each claiming to have won the wager…and just when it began to get a bit heated, Mutt suggested that they pick some mutual friend to play "judge" in this matter and Jeff suggested me. Mutt agreed and each of them sent me the whole message thread and a pledge that, no matter how I ruled, they would abide by my decision and remain my friend. They said nothing about remaining friends with each other.

Following due deliberation, I just sent each the following…

Unless there are Dominion voting machines involved or Mike Lindell comes up with more of his always-airtight evidence of voter fraud, I'm going to rule that you both were right so you both won. Go to dinner. Get separate checks. And each of you pays the other guy's check (including tip) as long as the total isn't more than 20% higher than the one you run up. If it is, the person who ran up the check pays the overage.

That is my final ruling. Court stands adjourned.

As I was writing this post, Jeff e-mailed me that he will comply. We're waiting to hear from Mutt.

Today's Video Link

A profile of my favorite chef — or at least he was when I was nine — Hector Boyardee…

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Set the TiVo!

The PBS series American Experience is currently featuring an episode called "The Lie Detector," all about the invention of that machine and the uses to which it has been put, not always for good. I always knew the device was inadmissible in court because of its dubious accuracy but I hadn't known of some of the damage it has done to justice and human lives.

I had also heard that William Marston — famous in my circle as the creator of Wonder Woman — was one of the "inventors" of the lie detector. According to this documentary, that's probably giving him way too much credit but there's much info on Marston in the show…and yes, they mention Wonder Woman. They also say he did it for DC Comics, which is not exactly true. He did it for a company called All-American Comics which was funded by and later absorbed by DC Comics.

You can probably catch this program on your local PBS channel for the next few days and it also seems to be streaming online from a number of sources.

From the E-Mailbag…

The fine writer of comic books and other things, Kurt Busiek, has this to add to my piece on why the X-Men comic was almost certainly not an imitation of DC's Doom Patrol…

In addition to the stuff you've pointed out, I can't see where someone thinking the Doom Patrol was a cool idea would decide that the bits to copy were the wheelchair and the name of a group of villains.

The Brotherhood of Evil and the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants also debuted the same month, which would make it even harder to swipe, even if either party thought it'd be a good idea. I mean, I can see someone thinking, "Brotherhood of Evil is a great name, I want something like that," and inventing the Monastery of Menace or the Lodge of Licentiousness. But just adding a word to a name the other guy's using is…pretty obvious. Not to mention that everyone involved was more creative than that.

And if Goodman wanted another book like F.F., as he did, Lee and Kirby didn't need to hurry-up and swipe a book that had just come out. Kirby (if not Lee, as well) had been reading pulp S.F. with stories of mutants feared and hated by ordinary people, fighting against worser mutants to save the world (and themselves) in the form of Kuttner's Baldy stories (which featured bald telepaths, even), Van Vogt's Slan, Sturgeon's More Than Human, Shiras's Children of the Atom…they had lots of other material to draw from, and they'd even both done stories about mutants before.

Some people have pointed out that the X-Men's blue-and-yellow costumes and the Doom Patrol's red-and-white costumes have a similar design — but the X-Men had theirs first; the D.P. started out in F.F.-like coveralls.

It doesn't make any sense from the POV of a creator.

It sure doesn't. And something else I might have emphasized is that folks who did comic books back then rarely read what their competitors were doing. Devout comic book fans read everything but don't realize that most comic book creators didn't and probably still don't.

I have no trouble believing that Stan Lee hadn't seen The Fly from the Archie company before the creation of Spider-Man. Heck, an editor at DC Comics almost never read the books supervised by the other editors there, even the ones with whom he shared an office. Publishers looked at their competitors' sales figures and would sometimes order up similar books because of that.

There seems to be an ongoing debate among some historians as to how Martin Goodman at Marvel found out that Justice League of America and before that, Challengers of the Unknown were selling well for DC. There was this fabled golf game between Goodman and Jack Liebowitz at DC in which the latter supposedly bragged about the numbers, prompting Goodman to race back to his office and tell Stan Lee he wanted a super-hero team book.

That golf game almost certainly never occurred. Goodman never said it did and Liebowitz said it didn't. What I think happened was that someone asked Stan how they came to start Fantastic Four and he said something like, "Oh, Martin found out DC had this book that was selling well. He probably had lunch with Jack Liebowitz or played golf with him or something," and the part about playing golf became enshrined in Marvel history. The simpler explanation is that the sales figures were no secret. Anyone who cared could find them out…and DC and Marvel then had the same distributor which made it even easier.

Here's what Goodman's company would put out when he saw the numbers on Pine Comics' Dennis the Menace comic and Harvey's Casper the Friendly Ghost

He did not find out they were hits by playing golf with anyone. And that kind of thing came from someone looking at sales reports, not someone looking at a competitor's comic book and saying, "Hey, that's a great idea for a comic! Let's steal that!" There might be an exception somewhere in history but that would be rare.

And to some extent, what was happening here was not theft of an idea but an attempt to confuse buyers into purchasing your knock-off instead of the other company's real thing. It was like all those records in the sixties that hoped the customers would think they were buying The Beatles when it was actually The Beetles or The Fab Four. Anyway, thanks, Kurt.

Today's Video Link

A company called FilmRise Television has put every episode of The Dick Van Dyke Show up on YouTube. I'm assuming they have the legal right to do this so look at this page and select the one (or more) you want to watch. Here's one of my favorites — especially the ending…

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ASK me: Doom Patrol and the X-Men

Here's a question I received from Jeff Wagner but also occasionally from other people. Oh, wait. First, let me put one of these here…

Okay. Now, here's what Jeff (and others) wanted to ask…

In 1963, DC Comics brought out a new super-hero team called The Doom Patrol in a comic called My Greatest Adventure. Shortly after, Marvel brought out the X-Men. The two comics had a lot of similarities. I've seen many people discuss whether one was a rip-off of the other. What do you think?

I think it's pretty close to impossible. Yes, there are similarities. The Doom Patrol was about a wheelchair-using genius gathering together a number of "freaks" with great powers to try and stop other "freaks" with great powers from wreaking havoc on the world, particularly a band called The Brotherhood of Evil. The X-Men was about a wheelchair-using genius gathering together a number of "mutants" with great powers to try and stop other "mutants" with great powers from wreaking havoc on the world, particularly a band called The Brotherhood of Evil Mutants.

There were a few other parallels. Both comics had as a theme that the freaks/mutants felt like outcasts from society and there was a sense that they were bound together by the problems they had from being different. The Doom Patrol was billed as "The World's Strangest Heroes" and the X-Men were billed as "The Strangest Super-Heroes of All!"

In both groups, the heroes bickered a lot…but that was becoming pretty standard in super-hero groups at the time thanks to the success of Fantastic Four.  In fact, writer Bob Haney, who was one of the creators of The Doom Patrol, told me and others that one of the ideas behind that comic was to give DC a super-hero group with the dynamic of the Fantastic Four, which was selling quite well for Marvel.  And X-Men was reportedly started because Marvel publisher Martin Goodman had, for the same reason, asked for another super-team like the Fantastic Four. So there's one clear explanation for some similarities — both creative teams had the same goal: Imitating to some extent the F.F.

"Brotherhood of Evil" was also a phrase then turning up in the news, sometimes to describe organized crime; at other times to describe any alliance of Communist nations. In 1959, not long before, author Frederic Sondem Jr. published Brotherhood of Evil, a book about the Mafia.

I have seen several possible scenarios of theft floated over the years. One is that the team which came out second (The X-Men) was assembled after its creators — Stan Lee and Jack Kirby — saw the first story of the Doom Patrol on the newsstands and decided to copy it. The problem with that scenario is that My Greatest Adventure #80 which introduced The Doom Patrol went on sale April 18, 1963 and X-Men #1 went on sale July 2, 1963.

That's a gap of 75 days. This process got simpler in later years due to technological advances but in '63, it generally took at least 75 days — often more — to take a comic book from inception to on-sale. That was why letter pages didn't feature letters about the previous issue. More often, it was the issue from three or four months before.

Could Stan Lee and Jack Kirby have seen that first Doom Patrol story on the stands and whipped up the first issue of X-Men quickly enough to have had it hit newsstands on 7/2/63?  I'm skeptical.

This was a first issue and those always take longer than books where all the characters are designed and named and everyone has agreed on what they'll be like and how they'll function and what color their outfits should be.  Kirby was fast but even he had to cogitate a little before putting pencil to paper and on a new book, there would have to be a few meetings with Stan and maybe preliminary sketches.

Stan was pretty fast too but there were a lot of steps necessary to put out any issue of any comic book then — not just writing and penciling but also inking, lettering, coloring, editorial work, sending it over to the Comics Code for approval, etc. Then it had to go to the engravers to be photographed and then color guides were sent off to the engravers where the color separations were done by hand…and that might take a week or two.

Then film was made of the separations…then printing plates were made…then the comic was printed…then it was bound…then it was shipped all across the nation. This was in a time before FedEx or Dropbox or computers. Some of this trafficking was done via U.S. Mail. Also, the printers and engravers often charged extra for a "rush" job.

Why go through all that if you're going to be second on the newsstand no matter what you do?

Some people trying to make the case for theft have said, "Well, maybe someone visited the printer and saw what the other company was working on before it came out." The problem with that speculation is that, first of all, it's just speculation. Secondly, comic book writers, artists and editors almost never visited their printers…and besides, DC and Marvel had different printers then.

"Well then, maybe someone from one company's editorial offices visited the other company's office and saw or heard something." Slightly more possible but no one can name a single person who might have done that. Stan and Jack certainly never dropped by the DC offices during that period. I can't think of anyone who was then working for both companies.

Copying a competitor's book as soon as it came out strikes me as a "crime" that no one would have wanted to commit. People in this industry have imitated others' hits but they usually wait until those books are proven hits before they do. It was probably a good six months before any reliable sales figures on My Greatest Adventure #80 were known. No one even started tallying them until the issue went off-sale…in this case, two months later.

And when the numbers did come in on My Greatest Adventure #80, they weren't very impressive. DC waited six issues before they had gathered sufficient sales data to warrant changing the name of the comic to Doom Patrol. It lasted a few years but it was never a top seller.

Bob Haney and Arnold Drake. In that order.

One other thing. This is not evidence but I worked with both Stan and Jack, and I knew Arnold Drake and, to a lesser degree, Bob Haney. They all struck me as the kind of folks who, if they were working on a new idea and found out a competitor was coming out with something similar, would change their plans. I can imagine them inventing something like someone else's success at the insistence of their publisher. Stan certainly had in the past complied with his publisher's directives to ape what was selling for others…but, again, that's something that happens when a comic is a proven moneymaker over some period of time.

Again: Why go through all that if you're going to be second on the newsstand no matter what you do? You might as well wait and see how their book fares before you start whipping up something similar.  Theirs could, after all, flop and you might then decide you didn't want to go that route.

When I first discussed the matter with Arnold Drake, he was immediately dismissive of the idea that X-Men had in any way copied his Doom Patrol. Many years later when X-Men was one of the hottest comics ever, he began suggesting that maybe there was a bit of plagiarism there…but even he couldn't explain how it could have been on the stands so soon after his.

Arnold was a lovely man and a fine writer. He was booted out of DC about time the original Doom Patrol comic was canceled and immediately went over to Marvel where he began writing — wait for it — X-Men. I was sorry when we lost him and even sorrier that he didn't live to see the Doom Patrol turned into a rather popular — and surprisingly faithful to his concept — TV series. He would have been very proud and a little wealthier.

As for Stan and Jack, both men said they never saw the Doom Patrol — before or after they started the X-Men. And when you think about it, did they really need to imitate a comic book that was kind of an imitation of what they were already doing?

ASK me

Today's Video Link

Let's watch two champions. On May 9 of 1973, Johnny Carson welcomed one of the world's great athletes, Pelé, to The Tonight Show. Pelé, as I'm sure you've read, recently passed away, causing mass mourning in Brazil. His coffin was carried through the streets on top of a fire engine, with huge crowds turning out to pay their respects.

His appearance on Johnny's show was an interesting spot because Pelé spoke almost no English and Johnny decided — and I'd love to know why — to attempt the spot without an interpreter. He also did something that few (if any) current talk show hosts would attempt — a physical demonstration of some soccer moves.

Most hosts today would avoid it. It couldn't be written in advance. Too much improvisation would be involved. The host might look stupid and inept. But it was never dull when Johnny tried something like that…

WonderFul WonderCon

WonderCon will be held March 24-26 at the Anaheim Convention Center. They're just starting to announce their guests and, lo and behold, I am one of them. For reasons we all understand, I have not been to a WonderCon since 2019 and I'm hoping no disease prevents this one from taking place or me being there for it.

It's always been a great convention if you can deal with the Disneyland traffic, which is rarely as bad as I expect. A lot of folks plan a trip that includes both WonderCon and Disneyland. The proximity to Disneyland is also nice in that there are plenty of places to stay and plenty of great places to dine.

Badges are still available for WonderCon. If you can't get in to Comic-Con in San Diego, this is a good alternative. It's run by the same folks and features many of the same panels and exhibitors. It also usually has one of the most impressive turnouts of cosplayers if that's a selling point for you.

In fact, badges are not only available, the 3-Day ones are on sale until January 8. So if you want to go for all three days, you want to order in the next four days. Consider doing this.

The Art of the Crooked Deal

Imagine for a second that it's 1972 and you're up in your aunt's attic and you find a copy of Superman #1 in great condition. Imagine that, perhaps unwisely, you decide to run right out and sell it for quick cash. If you'd held onto it, today it would probably be worth more than your aunt's whole house but back then, you're thinking, "Wow! I might be able to get $200 for this!" and that sounds appealing.

There is no eBay and you're not going to go to a comic book convention — of which there are few — and buy a table to sell one comic book.  There is a thing called but The Overstreet Comic Book Price Guide which would tell you how much loot you might be able to get for it but in '72, Mr. Overstreet's guide is new and neither well-known nor particularly consulted or trusted yet.

Your most likely option if you want to liquidate your "find" for quick cash? Go to a comic book shop to try and sell it, which means you encounter the big question of "What's this thing worth?"

Many, many years ago, I had some unpleasant encounters with a gent who ran a small shop that sold old comic books.  I honestly do not recall his name so I'll call him Mr. Understreet but a better name might have been Mr. Underprincipled or Mr. Underhanded.  He was a shark, a liar, a con-man, a cheater, a man not to be trusted…but you probably wouldn't pick up on that upon first meeting.  The guy could come across as cheery and sincere and Your Best Friend Forever.

And he loved cheating people. Just loved it. Someone (not me) said of him, "He'd rather make $100 dishonestly than $200 honestly." In a moment, we'll discuss why but let's get to his modus operandi.

Like many comic shops in those pre-eBay days, he had a mail order catalog he put out every so often. But he also had a fake one he printed to show suckers like you. It had very low prices. You'd walk in with your Superman #1 and he'd offer you $50 for it. You'd gulp and say, "I heard these went for hundreds."

He'd tell you, first of all, that's a lot of phony hype in the press. "Don't believe everything you read." That always sounds like sage advice about everything and in fact, some of the early news stories about the rising value of old comic books were bogus…stories planted by folks trying to drive up the prices of their inventories.

He'd also say, "Once in while, one of these goes for $200 but it's got to be in Absolute Mint Condition," and no matter what shape your Superman #1 was in, he'd tell you it was Good (at best!) and show you some flaw — a wrinkle, a smudge, a tiny tear — that indicated that. He'd also remind you that he was an expert in this field and you weren't.

And then Mr. Understreet would haul out his phony list and show you that he sold copies of Superman #1 in Good condition for $75.

He didn't. He never sold anything for the prices on that list. He didn't even have most of the stuff on that list. It was just to deceive guys like you who walked in with rare comics. He apparently got a lot of them back then.

So he'd tell you, "Look, I shouldn't do this but I know a guy who really wants one of these. I can probably get a hundred out of him for this one so I'll give you sixty dollars cash for it, final offer." You'd take it and then he'd sell the comic for $500…or more.

And he'd just love doing this. It was not solely a matter of the profit. It was that feeling of power and how smart he was to make a chump out of you. I know this because a few times, he couldn't resist bragging about how he'd taken advantage of some jerk and I'd see his eyes flash, not about the money but about how damned clever he was.

He felt like he had a super-power. Anyone could buy an old comic for what it actually was worth. He had the ability to buy it for a lot less and put one over on some chump.

So what became of this guy? Beats me. His shop is long gone. I don't think it even made it into the nineties, let alone this century. Before I wrote this, I called a friend who had some dealings with him way back then…and my friend also didn't remember the guy's name. He said, "I always referred to him as 'That Prick,'" which is one of the nicer things I heard the guy called.

My friend added, "I don't know what happened to him either. I kinda hope he got beaten to death in an alley by some of the customers he screwed over."

That's one possible outcome and I'm not saying it didn't happen. But being a nicer person than my friend, I'd like to think Mr. Overpriced is still alive. The punishment I have in mind for him is that at some point, he stopped thinking how smart he was to turn a $440 profit on a copy of Superman #1 or maybe $550 on a Batman #1. If he was really smart, he would have waited until he could have sold them for six or even seven figures.

Mark's 93/KHJ 1972 MixTape #43

The beginning of this series can be read here.

Hey, remember the Bee Gees? They were around for an awful long time and they sold an awful lot of records. I had a number of their tunes on my mixtape but I don't recall ever knowing very much about them. Other kids at my high school seemed to know (and care) a lot about this Gibb brother or that Gibb brother but if I told you a lot about them here, it would just be stuff I cribbed from their Wikipedia page.

And by the way, around the first of every year, I send a donation to Wikipedia which, for all its false info, is still one of the most valuable tools you can find on the Internet. I just sent them my annual contribution. Won't you join me?

Getting back to the Bee Gees: This is "Words," as they performed it on The Ed Sullivan Show on March 17, 1968. It was high on the charts at the time and I liked it enough to record it off the radio, put it on my mixtape and later actually purchase it and other Bee Gees tunes on some sort of "Greatest Hits" record…