Every print interview Johnny Carson ever did seems to be turning up on the Internet these days. Here's one of the earliest — a 1967 chat he did with Alex Haley for Playboy. It's kind of interesting since it was done at a time when he hadn't been doing Tonight for much longer than Jack Paar had hosted and, despite a recent, messy renegotiation of his contract, he still wasn't being paid megabucks.

Frank Rich on what it means to support the troops.

And while we're at it, this article over on Salon [membership or watching ads required] says that wounded soldiers who are being treated at Walter Reed Army Medical Center have to pay for meals. I wish people in this country would get the idea that saying "I support the troops" is, literally, the least you can do. I mean, it's nice but on a list of things that could be done to benefit these people, thinking good thoughts is right at the bottom in terms of usefulness to their lives. Maybe we can change it to "I support giving the troops what they need."

William Saletan on how Democrats can win over pro-choice voters.

Leaving the subject of John W. Carson for a moment…I'm sure we're all properly horrified by the train derailment this morning in Los Angeles that has (so far) left ten people dead and at least 200 injured. It touched a little close to home for me because I have a friend who routinely takes one of those trains every weekday morning. I awoke to an e-mail that he sent to everyone in his address book saying, "I'm home today. I have the flu and I was feeling sorry for myself, but it turned out to be one of the luckiest breaks of my life." Also, if you read the reports, you'll see that it all happened right behind a Costco outlet, and the Costco employees stopped selling original Picassos and ran out to treat the injured. That's the Costco I most often visit when I'm in a Costco kind of mood…and I think next time I'm there, I'm going to stop every worker and express my admiration for their efforts.

According to reports, the accidents were caused by a man who was intent on killing himself. The guy had a police record for drug dealing and had tried slashing his wrists and stabbing himself in the chest. When those didn't work, he parked his Jeep Cherokee on the train tracks, but changed his mind at the last minute, got out and watched the trains hit it and derail. I don't want to be flippant about this but, boy, talk about a guy who can't do anything right.

The news report says he's been arrested, that he'll be charged with multiple homicides and that they currently have him on a "Suicide Watch." Yeah, right. Wouldn't want anything to happen to that lovely fellow. Let's make real sure he doesn't do anything crazy and hurt himself.

As I've mentioned here before, I have mixed feelings about the Death Penalty, especially because I think a lot of innocent people are wrongly convicted. An incident like this train disaster inflames the part of me that thinks if we're darn certain someone is guilty, the Death Penalty may make a lot of sense, and not just in the specific "first degree" situations to which it generally applies. (Amazingly, parking your SUV on railroad tracks and causing something like this probably wouldn't qualify.) But on top of it, I also believe that adults who are relatively sane should have the right to kill themselves. I figure: It's your life and if you want to end it, fine. There should be a little service where you can go, pay a couple of bucks and they'll check you out to make sure you're not just upset because the Lakers lost…then, if all is in order, they'll administer some quick, painless lethal injection or stick your toe in a light socket or make you eat tofu or whatever it takes.

This concept might horrify some but wouldn't that be better than forcing someone to park his car on railroad tracks or (as an acquaintance of mine once did), leap off the top of a Manhattan hotel in front of hundreds of traumatized spectators? In this case, it would also spare us wrestling with the morality of the Death Penalty and having a trial, and making survivors come in and testify and then keeping someone locked up forever. This guy who caused the wreck…we don't need to give this guy a trial. We just need to give him a very large bottle of strychnine — you can probably get them at Costco — and take him off that Suicide Watch.

I was going to try and get out of the Carson-linking business but this one's too good to deny you. An old friend of mine, Donna Schwartz Mills, wrote to thank me for all I've posted here and to tell me she has her own weblog where she's posting things about Johnny. Donna was on the Tonight Show staff for a number of years during the Carson Era, so her recollections are personal and quite interesting. Go to this posting and then use the links at the top of the page to read forward to the most recent.

And since I'm back doing this, I'll mention that Pat Sajak, who was among those who went up against Carson and failed, has written an article that's mostly about himself. It's also a little odd in its history. He says that in 1986, he was asked to guest-host for Johnny but that (a) there was a Writers Guild strike in progress and (b) the Directors Guild was also threatening to strike. The rest of the article may be true, and probably is, but neither of those unions entered into negotiations in 1986. The WGA struck in 1985 for 13 days and in 1988 for 22 weeks. The DGA negotiated a three-year contract in 1984 so they couldn't threaten a strike again until 1987…which they did. That was the year of the only DGA strike ever, which lasted all of five minutes. (I'm not kidding. Five minutes.) At no point during those years was there ever a moment when the WGA was on strike and the DGA was threatening to go out.

Comedian Larry Miller tells us about appearing with Johnny. And Rolling Stone has posted the text of a 1979 interview with Mr. C.

Veteran entertainment reporter Bob Thomas reports on the 100th birthday (today) of veteran character actor Charles Lane.

I'm going to stop posting about Johnny in the next day or so but I did want to make one point that absolutely no one seems to be making. It's that Johnny was an enormously powerful man to the point that very few folks in the industry were willing to ever get on his bad side. In one of the Associated Press obit pieces, I couldn't help but notice this paragraph…

Carson often had a cigarette in hand in the early years of "Tonight," eventually dropping the on-air habit when smoking on TV became frowned on. But he remained a heavy smoker for some years afterward, said a former associate who spoke on condition of anonymity.

Take a look at that. Johnny, who smoked constantly on network television for years, has died of emphysema…and one of his former (not even current) associates is still afraid to be quoted by name saying that the man remained a heavy smoker.

Johnny was quite beloved. I'm sure most of the glowing sentiments we're now hearing are heartfelt, and of course it would be rude to dwell on negatives when the body is still warm. Still, even before his death, people were only quietly (very quietly) whispering the "other" stories — the ones about ruthless (though usually not unethical) business dealings or, going back some years before his current marriage, of drinking and womanizing.

I'm not saying these stories are true. Some obviously are the bitter interpretations of people who felt Johnny should have had them on the show or allowed them into his tight circle of friends or otherwise aided them, but not all are as easily dismissed. I think anyone who ever got within six blocks of Mr. Carson will tell you privately that they heard such tales, and also that no one ever wanted to be quoted as telling them. When you kick the King, you have to be prepared to kill him…so you don't kick.

People did speak ill of him. Late in Carson's run, the entire media world forgot all the bad reviews that dismissed him as pandering to the Lowest Common Denominator. For instance, back when it was Cavett-vs.-Carson in late night, it was the intellectual who interviewed Noel Coward getting bested in the ratings by the low-class guy who did naughty double-entendre jokes and brought on animals to defecate on his desk.

Some of this Carson-bashing was simple snobbishness and some of it was the old tactic of getting attention by attacking the guy on top…but a lot of people just didn't like Johnny. They felt he smirked too much and went for easy laughs about squirrels warming their nuts, to say nothing of all that airtime spent coaxing airhead starlets to give salacious answers. At some point, the critical community gave up and declared he'd always been an integral part of Americana reflecting the national pulse…but he was not so universally beloved until near the end of his tenure.

Still, throughout, he was the most powerful man in show business. People who were in or around the field (and not already consigned to Carson's enemies list) were afraid to say anything that might have enraged The Legend. There are those who were at or around NBC during his reign who feel that the 30+ year marathon sprint was in no small part attributable to some of Carson's associates and employees; that, for example, Peter Lassally and/or Fred DeCordova kept the show working, that Talent Coordinator Jim McCawley deserves most of the credit for the discovery of new comedians, and that more of the best Carson "ad-libs" came from the writers than audiences could accept.

There are those who feel Johnny would not have been able to survive his last few years without Jay Leno keeping the ratings strong (and the demographics, younger) on the many nights he guest-hosted. Some would tell you that the mess over filling Johnny's chair after his departure was due to his refusal to ever plan for that day, forcing NBC to strategize with no clue as to when it might occur. These are all views that no one dared utter aloud when Johnny was around. Out of fear — and perhaps because some of us loved him on the show and wanted desperately to believe he was that nice, charming guy — he had to be the undisputed Monarch of Late Night, receiving all of the credit and none of the blame.

I write all this as a huge fan of the on-screen Carson. I am also an admirer of an aspect of Johnny's job which no one ever speaks of, which was his role as the guy ultimately in charge of the show's production. Others dealt with the network and talent coordinators and agents on a day-to-day basis but with an authority that flowed from him. When something was wanted, his people could call and say, "Johnny wants this," and they'd usually get it…and every now and then, Johnny himself had to get on the phone to someone high at NBC or at some agency and scare the hell out of them.

No matter how good one is in front of the camera, a long gig in show business has a lot to do with career management and knowing how to fight for the right things, and win. Carson knew how to do all that, which is why some said, "No one ever helped themselves in this business by pissing off Johnny Carson."

I don't know if his death means that people will become less afraid of telling "those stories" or suggesting there were other views of Carson. When Bob Hope died, a lot of folks thought we'd see an avalanche of books about the "real" Bob Hope…but we haven't, and he still remains more or less sacred. Perhaps Johnny will, as well. Even in an honest, warts-and-all accounting, he'd probably still come off as a god. Just maybe a slightly-more-human god.

I just cribbed the following off the weblog of a gent named Fred Bals…

One of the funniest live moments I ever saw was on the Carson show during that summer — a guest appearance by Rose Marie (of "Dick Van Dyke" fame), whose age Carson had jokingly referred to in his introduction. Another guest — whose identity I've long forgotten — mentioned the joke to Rose Marie, and compounded it by saying that Carson had claimed that when they were building the first stage, Rose Marie held the hammer.

"Ooookay," a mock-angry Rose Marie said, smiled at Carson, stood up and walked off the set. In close order, each of the other guests got up, smiled at Carson, and also left, until only McMahon was there. And then he got up and left, leaving Carson with what must have been the living embodiment of a talk show host's nightmare.

"Is it time to go to a commercial?" he asked. "Not for five minutes," came the offstage reply as the audience roared.

A desperate Carson eventually went into a stripper act, peeling down to his bare chest, as the orchestra blared out "The Stripper." And then all the male guests returned to the stage, each of them bare-chested too, as the audience went into hysterics.

Well, you had to be there. And it was funny, funny enough to me that I can still remember the details from a show I saw only once nearly 40 years ago. They cut to a commercial, and when the show came back on, Carson and the bare-chested guests were seated and he looked into the camera and dead-panned, "Welcome to Rawhide."

I remember that night and it was just as funny as Fred recalls. The guests were Debbie Reynolds, Carl Reiner and John Byner…and then Rose Marie came out. When Carson introduced her, he got the words all botched up and it sounded like he was saying she was ancient. She came out and Johnny apologized for the awkward intro. She said she hadn't heard it backstage. Johnny said, "Good," and tried to move on but Reiner loudly announced, "John Byner will tell you what he said."

Byner (and hey, there's a very funny man who isn't on television nearly enough) said, "He implied that when they build the first stage, you held the hammer." Just like Fred recalled. Johnny kept trying to explain and apologize but he just kept making it worse and worse until finally, all the guests walked off on him. And then it happened just as Fred said. To fill time, Johnny started doing a mock striptease, taking off his jacket, tie, shoes, socks and shirt. When Reiner, Byner and Ed McMahon came back out, they all had their shirts off, too.

I'm guessing this was in 1969 or 1970 because I recall discussing it the next day with a friend of mine who I haven't seen since around then. A very funny moment…and one that I suspect is lost forever due to all the tapes that have been destroyed over the years. Carson's company has most of the shows from the mid-seventies and up but only a few before then. A couple of the older clips, like Ed Ames and that tomahawk we're all sick of seeing, exist only because they were repeated in anniversary shows.

This coming Saturday, Game Show Network will run a six-hour marathon of old quiz programs on which the late Mr. Carson appeared. Here's a schedule.

Every few years, Johnny Carson used to sit for a major interview of some sort. Back in '78, he let writer Kenneth Tynan tag along with him for a while and the result was a long profile in The New Yorker, which Tynan later reprinted in his book, Show People. The New Yorker folks have put it up on their website, presumably for a limited time. So if you're interested in Carson, go read it or at least download it.

In 1979, he let 60 Minutes and Mike Wallace interview and profile him…though I believe he actually okayed the interview, allowed a day or two of filming, then changed his mind and cancelled, then changed again and cooperated. A version of it has rerun several times on the TV Land show that recycles old 60 Minutes TV-related profiles, but they're going back to that footage again tomorrow night on 60 Minutes Wednesday.

One thing that may interest some is Carson's manipulation of that line I quoted in my first post about his passing. In the Tynan profile, you'll read this…

Press grilling is routine stuff, except for:

Q: What would you like your epitaph to be?

CARSON [after pause for thought]: I'll be right back.

Laughter and applause for this line, the traditional cliché with which talk-show hosts segue into commercial break. Subsequent research reveals that Carson has used it before in answer to same question. Fact increases my respect for his acting ability. That pause for thought would have fooled Lee Strasberg.

I believe the footage of him being asked that question at that event is in the 60 Minutes profile. It's a good example of the gift that most great talk show hosts and comedians have…that of making scripted or planned material seem spontaneous.

Esquire Magazine has reposted the 2002 article by Bill Zehme about Carson in retirement. I guess it will forever qualify as Johnny's last interview.

Steve Martin says goodbye to Johnny in The New York Times. I set this link up so you shouldn't have to register. (For some reason, a lot of folks still don't want to sign up for sites like the Times, even though it's free, it doesn't seem to generate Spam, and you can easily get a special, separate e-mail address for such registrations if you want to keep your regular e-mailbox pure.)

If the Nielsen report I just received is accurate, Leno's show last night got a monster rating…11.2, which is more than double what The Tonight Show usually gets. As I said, I thought it was a nice, tasteful hour and I thought Jay did a good job of not making it be about him. I'm seeing him faulted on a number of websites for not being more emotional and making more of a personal statement but I think he hit the proper note.

From Frank Conniff comes this message…

In my opinion, the best Carson Tribute would that NBC could have done would have been to show five Carson shows in their entirety all this week with short wraparounds by Leno at the beginning and end.

It's my understanding that something of the sort was discussed, not necessarily with Leno doing bookends. Apparently, Carson Productions, which owns all of Johnny's old shows, didn't want that. Just as they don't want a public memorial service, they've declined a lot of proposals which would have made the mourning period too long or too elaborate. One presumes this is in keeping with how Johnny would have wanted it.

Roy Currlin notes…

…you mentioned no one has rerun a clip on a night when a guest host was on. Carson actually did a couple of times…a clip of Bobby Kennedy when Harry Belafonte was sitting in.

You're right. I am also told by a couple of Beatles authorities that they've never seen the episode where Joe Garagiola was guest hosting and John Lennon and Paul McCartney came on to announce they were starting up this thing called Apple Corps. The tapes, it is said, no longer exist. (Here's a web page that has some photos of that broadcast, which occurred on May 14, 1968, and this page has a partial transcript. Reportedly, Garagiola was ill-prepared to conduct the interview and he just kept saying over and over, "Boy, my kids are gonna be so impressed that I met you guys.")

Hey, I'll tell you the clip I would kill to see in full. (I have a partial video of it.) One night back in the early seventies, Joey Bishop was guest-hosting when Albert Brooks came out and did the single funniest routine I've ever seen on The Tonight Show. It wasn't exactly stand-up. He was seated in a chair, calmly explaining how he had run out of material but he was doing the show anyway to plug his new album…and then, after two or three minutes of that, he said, "Oh, I could get laughs if I wanted to…" and then he hit himself with a pie, sprayed himself with seltzer, dropped his pants, broke eggs on his head, etc. But of course, he explained, that kind of stuff was too easy and below the standard he'd set for himself…so he was just going to get out of show business. And he waddled off into a spotlight with his pants still around his ankles and waved goodbye to show business.

The audience was in hysterics and applauding their heads off and I think they were on their feet, which was rare back then. And when the camera cut back to Joey Bishop, you could see that Bishop didn't understand the routine. The folks in the audience got it but he didn't, and that made it even funnier.

I remember seeing that and aching from laughter. But at the same time, I was thinking, "I'll never get to see that again…I can't show it to anyone." This was before any of us even had Betamaxes. The better shows with Johnny were rerun on weekends and during vacation periods as The Best of Carson…and if Johnny had been behind the desk that night, the Brooks spot alone would have guaranteed that episode would get rerun. But they never reran guest host shows.

Like I said, I do have a partial video of it, but it's minus Bishop's intro and post-bit bewilderment, plus the end of the routine itself was trimmed off. A lot of Tonight Show comedy just doesn't work as well out of that quasi-live, "real time" context. I'd love to find a complete copy if it exists. For that matter, I'd love to find a tape of all of Brooks's old stand-up routines. Nobody funnier.

I noticed one other change in tonight's Tonight Show as it aired. After her song, k.d. lang went over to the guest chair and said a line or two about how wonderful it always was to appear with Johnny. That was cut, presumably to make room for the clip they edited in of Carson and Rickles.

As I mentioned, I spent some time this morning chatting with Paul Harris on his fine radio show out of St. Louis. We talked about Carson, of course, and Paul has now posted an MP3 file of that conversation over on his website. Prowl around a bit and you'll find conversations with a lot of folks, many more interesting than me.